Episode 125

Natural Wine (Part II)

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Natural Wine (Part II)

Episode 125

What’s shakin, cocktail fans?

Welcome to episode 125 of The Modern Bar Cart Podcast!

Thanks for joining us for part two of this natural wine crash course with certified Sommelier Joey Fox (@yobro_itsjoe) of Old Westminster Winery. If you haven’t had a chance to check out part one, we’d highly recommend you do so. We lay out some of the most important natural wine terms and taste through two amazing expressions, so most of what we discuss in the second half of our interview builds upon and extends what we cover in part one.

In this part two of our natural wine crash course, some of the topics we discuss include:

Why the term “natural” in natural wine encounters some of the same definitions issues as many products in the spirits world. Think “craft” or “small batch” – terms that are ambiguous and somewhat relative.
Which multi-thousand dollar bottle of wine has been quietly produced as a natural wine without really any public knowledge.
How Joey and other winemakers make progress on their craft and share ideas to advance natural wine in the public view.
What the term “biodynamic farming” means, and what it holds for the future of both sustainability and flavor.
How Old Westminster winery is undertaking a cool new project with hybrid grapes that could revolutionize the way we think about winemaking in America – a place where controlled denominations of origin aren’t held in as high regard compared to elsewhere in the world.
What to drink while eating street food in Japan with Anthony Bourdain
And much, much more.

Featured Cocktail: Mulled Wine (Done Right)

This episode’s seasonally appropriate featured cocktail is mulled wine. We know…we know…it’s not really a cocktail, but it is a large-batch hot beverage that people tend to serve this time of year – and unfortunately, it’s done poorly more often than it’s done well. So instead of giving you a hard, fast recipe, we’re gonna focus on tips to help you make it better, no matter which wine and mulling spices you choose.

Now, the basic idea of a mulled wine is to take wine, heat it up, and then throw in some traditional baking spices like cinnamon, clove, allspice, and star anise. The flavors of these ingredients then infuse into the wine thanks to the heat, water, and alcohol present (all of which aid in flavor extraction), and the mixture is served steaming hot.

It’s a pleasant prospect up front, right? Kinda like a wine tea. You like wine, and you like all these spices, and it’s cold outside, so a hot beverage is appealing. But more often then not, mulled wine is served at the wrong temperature, the ingredients are over- or under-infused, and there’s no thought put into pairing the base wine with its accent ingredients. So, here’s how to avoid these common pitfalls.

1.) Heat Management

First, remember that temperature management is important. If you have your mulling spices in the wine on your stovetop, get the wine just up to simmering and leave everything in for about 10 minutes. Make sure you taste along the way and don’t let it get too hot. What you’re looking to avoid is over extracting the bitter or astringent compounds out of your spices, which is really easy to do if you cook too hot or for too long.

2.) Avoid Over-Extracting

The other thing that helps avoid this fate is to strain out your mulling spices after you’re done cooking. It might seem pleasant to have a nice star anise pod floating in your mulled wine, but this can also lead to bitterness and a lack of balance, especially if you mull the wine more than half an hour before serving it. If you want to have spiced garnishes, have a bowl on the side for your guests to use as they serve themselves.

Show Notes

In this episode, we hit several very important topics in the natural wine world.

Biodynamic Agriculture

Biodynamic farming is a series of farming practices created by Rudolph Steiner in the 1920s. It involves using certain natural field and compost preparations (code named 500 – 508 to increase fertility and reduce disease pressure in wine. These preparations are used in place the of copper, sulfur, and lime treatments used around the world by wine makers.

Hybrid Grapes

Hybrid grape varieties are combinations of two or more “vitis” (or grape) varieties. Most often, grape hybrids are a cross between vitis vinifera (traditional European wine grapes) and some other North American or Asian grape variety. The result is a grape hybrid that can harness flavor characteristics and disease resistance from both strains.

Old Westminster Winery is conducting an experimental wine operation on a property they call Burnt Hill. In this vineyard, they are planting small plots of hybrid grapes with the purpose of experimenting in the hybrid space.

Lightning Round

Favorite Cocktail

The Last Word. I love the herbaceousness of the Green Chartreuse, and I love bright, acid-forward cocktails.

If You Were a Cocktail Ingredient, What Would You Be?

Gin. It’s very versatile – you can make it a lot of different ways.

Cocktail with Anyone, Past or Present

I’d would love to drink sake and cheap beer in Japan eating street food with Anthony Bourdain.

Influential Wine Books

Wine for Dummies
Windows on the World – Kevin Zraly
The World Atlas of Wine
Natural Wine for the People – Alice Feiring
Kitchen Confidential – Anthony Bourdain

Advice for Aspiring Natural Wine Fans

Take time to get to know your wine makers and your wine retailers. Also know some importers. An importer is a sort of stamp of approval.

In this part two of our natural wine crash course, some of the topics we discuss include:

Why the term “natural” in natural wine encounters some of the same definitions issues as many products in the spirits world. Think “craft” or “small batch” - terms that are ambiguous and somewhat relative.
Which multi-thousand dollar bottle of wine has been quietly produced as a natural wine without really any public knowledge.
How Joey and other winemakers make progress on their craft and share ideas to advance natural wine in the public view.
What the term “biodynamic farming” means, and what it holds for the future of both sustainability and flavor.
How Old Westminster winery is undertaking a cool new project with hybrid grapes that could revolutionize the way we think about winemaking in America - a place where controlled denominations of origin aren’t held in as high regard compared to elsewhere in the world.
What to drink while eating street food in Japan with Anthony Bourdain
And much, much more.

1.) Heat Management

2.) Avoid Over-Extracting

3.) Consider Citrus

One thing you can do if you want to jazz up your mulled wine is to transfer it to a vessel where it can achieve a nice holding temperature and then slice up some lemons or oranges to float in it. It’s much less likely that you’re going to get bitterness from these ingredients, and if the wine can handle a little citrus, I think it makes a nice addition, kind of moving in the direction of a hot sangria.

4.) Use a Heated Serving Vessel

To achieve that holding temperature we just mentioned, you’re going to want to use a crock pot or a hot plate/induction burner that can be set to a nice low temperature. This means you don’t have to constantly be worrying about the stove, which is great when entertaining.

5.) Choose Your Wine Carefully

The last thing we’ll say about mulled wine is that you want to choose your main ingredient carefully. Using something peppery and tannic like a malbec or a really intense cab might be overkill when you throw in those mulling spices. But then, a delicate pinot noir or rose might not fit the bill either. We’d recommend some of the juicier Spanish reds - anything that’s either 100% grenache (or garnacha), or where that grape has a dominant share of the blend should be perfectly approachable.

Natural Wine (Part II)

Featured Cocktail: Mulled Wine (Done Right)

1.) Heat Management

2.) Avoid Over-Extracting

Show Notes

Biodynamic Agriculture

Hybrid Grapes

Lightning Round

Favorite Cocktail

If You Were a Cocktail Ingredient, What Would You Be?

Cocktail with Anyone, Past or Present

Influential Wine Books

Advice for Aspiring Natural Wine Fans

1.) Heat Management

2.) Avoid Over-Extracting

3.) Consider Citrus

4.) Use a Heated Serving Vessel

5.) Choose Your Wine Carefully

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